Eurach Research
magazine_ Interview

We need courage and openness

On the 20th anniversary of the Institute for Renewable Energy a conversation with its heads Wolfram Sparber and Alexandra Troi.

Credit: stock.adobe.com | Hermann | All rights reserved

Let's start with a thought experiment: suppose fossil fuels were eliminated overnight – what would that mean for our everyday life in South Tyrol?

Wolfram Sparber: We would run out of light in a relatively short time, buildings would be cold, and the transport of goods and people on the roads would largely come to a standstill; electric vehicles would also soon come to a standstill, unless powered by their own solar power. Only 40 percent of Italy’s electricity consumption is covered by renewable sources. So, our society is still very dependent on fossil fuels.

Alexandra Troi: Not all houses would be cold and dark; some are already virtually independent of fossil fuels. Insulating roofs, floors, and walls, installing new windows and such has greatly reduced energy consumption, and the remainder can be covered mainly from renewable sources. As for heating: my own apartment has been renovated to be more energy efficient, and if we hadn’t been able to heat it last winter, it would certainly have been a bit cold on some days, but we wouldn’t have frozen to death.

And if streets were dominated by cyclists and pedestrians, it wouldn’t be the worst idea in itself.  I can imagine it making the city more human in a way, we could definitely move in that direction with a little time.

Which sector consumes the most energy in South Tyrol?

Sparber: By far the most is consumed in transportation, which accounts for over 50 percent of fossil energy consumption. There are several factors at play here: most goods are transported by road here, and we have a lot of tourism, with around 80 percent of visitors arriving in their own vehicles.

Troi: On top of that, there is also a lot of domestic traffic, many people in South Tyrol commute, and goods are transported within and from the valleys.

Sparber: Yes, a lot has been invested in improving access to remote locations, which is why we are fortunate not to have phenomena such as depopulated villages; but the downside is, of course, increased traffic.

If you had to identify specific opportunities for decarbonization, what would your priorities be?

Sparber: I would start with promoting e-mobility. Of course, reducing private transport and shifting goods to rail is an important goal. But infrastructure projects such as the Brenner Base Tunnel or a two-track railway line between Bolzano and Merano take a long time. And vehicles will continue to exist, even if there are fewer of them. Another factor is that while a building facade can remain unchanged for 40 years, or a boiler can be in use for 20 or 25 years, cars are sometimes replaced after only five years, or at the latest after 15 years. If we can get as many people as possible to choose an electric car when they replace their vehicle, we can achieve a big impact relatively quickly. There is now a wide range of technologies available on the market. And we can see from various countries that the switch to e-mobility can work if the right conditions are in place.

“Nations that have been very strong in a particular technology often find it difficult to move away from it.”

Wolfram Sparber

Countries as diverse as Norway and China are at the forefront of the electrification of car traffic. This is not surprising in Norway, as Scandinavia is generally very far ahead in terms of defossilization. “They can afford it,” people always say, “they’re rich.” China, however, is far less wealthy, yet the country is likely to achieve a share of almost 60 percent e-mobility in new car sales this year – and China is the world’s largest car market. Ethiopia is a completely different, extreme example. There, the purchase of diesel or gasoline cars has been banned since the beginning of the year. The state, which had heavily subsidized fossil fuels in order to enable the population to travel at all, has realized that this is placing too much of a burden on the public purse. Electricity, on the other hand, is cheap because Ethiopia produces plenty of it from hydropower.  However, what all these different countries have in common is a clear vision that they are consistently pursuing with various measures.

And that’s not the case here?

Sparber: Yes, not just in Italy, but also in Austria and Germany, there has been quite a bit of zigzagging in policy. Both Italy and Germany’s long tradition as car manufacturers and producers of gasoline and diesel engines certainly plays a role – both have also been trying to hold on to that for as long as possible. Nations that have been very strong in one technology often find it difficult to move away from it and actively embrace a new one. Other countries, such as China, see the new technology as an opportunity and are investing in it.

 

Alexandra Troi und Wolfram Sparber

Credit: Eurac Research | Sigrid Hechensteiner

Ms. Troi, what is particularly important decarbonization opportunities in your opinion?

Troi: That renovation is both possible and interesting for everyone. This means helping those who otherwise couldn’t afford it and creating incentives for those who can invest their own money. These long-term investments would only become savings over time, and it’s difficult for many people to come up with the money now. But it makes a lot of sense for society to invest now. The sums involved aren’t as high as we sometimes think. When you factor in the 50 percent tax savings, renovating our apartment costs no more than a new car.

I think it’s often about how we communicate things to people, how we manage to make them see the advantages and get them excited.

In large blocks of flats it can be particularly difficult to get all the inhabitants on board.

Troi: I found the process in our condominium quite interesting. What helped us make the decision was the experience of other condominiums. Not the abstract argument that “the value of the apartments will increase as a result of the renovation,” but the specific case of an apartment owner who sold after the renovation and got a significantly better price. The statement is the same, but it had a different effect. Shared experiences can have a big impact.

Sparber: The question of how to explain something, how to get people on board and deal with their fears, is becoming increasingly important. We also take this into account in our research work. When we started 20 years ago, we were a purely technical and scientific team, but now some of us have a background in social sciences and we also work with external experts in this field. Technology has made progress and will continue to evolve – but the real challenge is the transformation of society. I think fear of change plays a major role in what is currently happening in the US and this has also influenced European elections

“Renovation is a way of protecting the general population from price fluctuations in the energy sector.”

Alexandra Troi

When it comes to the energy transition, there are widespread fears that it will bring uncertainty or exacerbate social inequality.

Troi: Social cushioning is important. However, reducing energy consumption through building renovation is precisely one way of giving the general public more security. The war in Ukraine has shown that those who had already renovated their homes were naturally much less affected by rising gas prices. The less imported energy we consume, the less dependent we are on its price, which can fluctuate greatly for geopolitical or other reasons. And if we expand public transportation in parallel with the switch to electric vehicles, then people will be able to get around even without their own cars.

Sparber: I see the energy transition as a general opportunity to leave more money in most people’s wallets. Let’s fast forward ten or twenty years to a society that meets most of its energy needs from renewable sources and is more efficient: such a society would generate much lower energy costs. We see this in countries where a large proportion of the electricity in the grid comes from renewable sources; electricity prices are significantly lower there. And if, thanks to renovation, I no longer have to spend €2,000 a year on heating, but only €500, then I have €1,500 available for something else. When it comes to housing, the question of who pays for the renovation and who benefits from it complicates matters. The owner has to invest, but they are often not particularly motivated to do so because the tenant pays the heating bill.

Technological transformations are almost never just about technical aspects. A manufacturer of engine pistons that has built up valuable expertise over decades finds they are in a situation where their wealth of experience is worthless with the transition to electric cars, which no longer have pistons. Technologies come and go, it’s always been the case, but the moment of transformation can be painful. In Germany, for example, the long tradition of coal mining was certainly a major reason why the country phased out nuclear energy earlier than coal, even though I think the environmental balance sheet for coal is more questionable.

We paid dearly for our dependence on Russian gas – now Europe is heavily dependent on China for photovoltaic technology: is this too a recipe for disaster?

Sparber: The dependence exists, but there is one significant difference that makes it less dramatic in the short term: if I import gas and the gas stops flowing, it will be dark within a few weeks or months. If I install imported solar technology, it will produce electricity for 20 years. Nevertheless, the energy sector is certainly one of the most strategically sensitive sectors and should be given special attention. It was a political mistake that we built up the solar industry in Europe and then exported it very successfully whereby we actually destroyed it at home. I see this as even more critical than with gas, because solar energy received massive public funding in Europe, especially in its early stages. Had we chosen to promote European products, the industry would have stayed and expanded.

“Solar power is now the cheapest electricity that can be produced in most countries.”

Wolfram Sparber

The question now is: can we bring the solar industry back? It won’t be easy, but yes it can be done. If you hand out subsidies, you can also make demands – so I think it’s only fair to say: we will subsidize products that are largely produced in Europe, even if the company is Chinese or American. China must be credited with pursuing a very consistent national and industrial policy and promoting solar energy for years and decades. In China, they have managed to scale up production to an extent that was unimaginable even for us researchers ten years ago. In Europe we are benefiting from this: solar power is now the cheapest electricity that can be produced in most countries.

Ms. Troi, your area of expertise is the energy-efficient renovation of historic buildings: are photovoltaic systems taboo in this context?

Troi: No, in cities this can certainly be a solution. The Bavarian Monument Authority, for example, is working with local authorities to draw up plans that identify areas suitable for photovoltaics. The idea is to develop an overall concept that considers factors such as local and distant effects and similar considerations. This has the advantage that the municipality does not have to respond to every single request, and the building owner can immediately see what options are available to them.  District heating is often the solution for heating in cities, and heat pumps are also becoming increasingly common. In rural areas, wood is also a suitable source of energy – there’s a whole range.

Is reconciling monument preservation and energy efficiency as difficult as the public imagine?

Troi: There is certainly a certain conflict of objectives, but the fundamental concerns are the same. One of the most important things for historical buildings is that they are used, but they will only be used if they offer a certain level of comfort and the heating costs are affordable. I think that, in general, historical building preservationists are actually experts when it comes to sustainability and recycling: they have a great deal of experience in how to keep things in use for a long time. Though opinions sometimes differ depending on specific measures, solutions can be found that satisfy everyone. This was demonstrated in a detailed online atlas we collected from across Europe that brings together good examples of historic building renovations. It is a compendium for anyone seeking practical advice or inspiration.

Mr. Sparber, when you think of cities, where do you see inspiring examples in the areas of energy supply and mobility?

Sparber: There are numerous interesting solutions from various cities. At the moment, there is a lot of talk about the example of Barcelona, where certain streets in the chessboard-like Eixample district have been closed to traffic, creating “superblocks” with space for gardens and children’s playgrounds, areas where water can seep away during heavy rainfall, and where trees provide shade. Denmark is a great example when it comes to heat supply, with a lot of renewable district heating from a wide variety of sources. The energy transition is a political consensus there – no matter which government is in power, the direction remains the same.

“We must succeed in making people want to actively change.”

Alexandra Troi

How we think about change and progress is also influenced by the media and political discourse. How do you assess this in South Tyrol?

Sparber: In my view, fear is generally used too often in communication, with lines such as “We have to change, otherwise the world will end” not being uncommon.  The argument is not wrong, but it is not inspiring. And those who oppose the energy transition blame everything on Brussels: “Brussels says we have to do it, so we have to do it, but it's actually really bad for our country.” In my opinion, far too little is said about the opportunities. People need to hear that we are doing this because it means added value, brings us interesting jobs, is good for our economy and our society, allows us to live better and be less dependent on outside influences.

Troi: I can only emphasize that – there is no positive vision. The idea that if we achieve energy and construction transition, we will live better afterwards. We must succeed in making people want to actively change. Because doing nothing does not mean that we will not have change; doing nothing means experiencing change that none of us wants. If, for example, we have more and more flood disasters where entire villages are swept away by a river, the reconstruction will cost us an incredible amount of tax money and still won’t make up for the loss. It would probably have been better to invest the money in damage control beforehand.

What are your wishes for the future of energy?

Sparber: That we as a society find the right compromise to allow change to happen. The question is really: how much change are we willing to allow? We need courage and openness: Let’s try something new!

Troi: I would like it to be very democratic – a future in which everyone has advantages yet must also bear responsibility

icontechnical documentation

20 years of research into renewable energies

Wolfram Sparber

Alexandra Troi

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